pure_lunatic
Ready to race!
If you do that then I wouldn't run the oil for very long... Fuel and water dilution are not desirable.
6
2.0 TSI oil surge/ blow by on the track
- Thread starter SammyTSI
- Start date
If you do that then I wouldn't run the oil for very long... Fuel and water dilution are not desirable.
shaunraney
That guy.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=181842&postcount=14
APR explains it themselves.
The fix he hints at makes a little more sense when you read that post.
APR isn't being secretive, APR is doing the smart thing and covering it's ass. If a representative of APR comes on here and gives a solution to a problem and someone screws up along the way...it's all APR's fault. I don't do it with the company I work for and I understand why *insert any company name here* does it.
Everyone on here MKV, and Vortex are like internet Gladys Kravtizes, the guy reaches out for help and GETS IT and everyone gets all pissy because APR didn't take out full page spread in USA Today detailing the fix.
APR explains it themselves.
The fix he hints at makes a little more sense when you read that post.
APR isn't being secretive, APR is doing the smart thing and covering it's ass. If a representative of APR comes on here and gives a solution to a problem and someone screws up along the way...it's all APR's fault. I don't do it with the company I work for and I understand why *insert any company name here* does it.
Everyone on here MKV, and Vortex are like internet Gladys Kravtizes, the guy reaches out for help and GETS IT and everyone gets all pissy because APR didn't take out full page spread in USA Today detailing the fix.
Gunkata
Drag Race Newbie
the post talks about changing oil every 5k miles... so what hint are you talking about exactly? and while I understand your points, they could still have given some information and also stated, "do not install/do this yourself", etc., etc., rather than being all coy about it.
Gunkata
Drag Race Newbie
Further to this "point" - if guys are tracking their cars and a tuner comes out and says, "don't track your cars!! it could be REALLY BAD! We have a fix, but call us and we'll tell you what it is" - I mean come on, that is strange and not a very good PR move. Of course guys want to know what it is when they track their car
shaunraney
That guy.
Stop using a straw man. APR never said, "Don't track your car" APR said "Contact this guy in motorsport and we will help you out".
I'd be willing to bet based on the information that we do have from APR and basic automotive knowledge that the PCV system (it says it in the last section of that post) in the vehicle is getting overloaded during high G-force turning and causing engine oil to be burnt/dumped through the engine and out the tail pipes of the car. What I guess APR is telling Sammy to do is to take the drain portion of his catch can and run a line down to the sump (oil pan) of his car so that this oil is then deposited back into the sump to avoid oil starvation that can occur when the PCV system begins to essentially act like a straw on his engine oil after his catch can fills up. I'm also willing to be that it carries A LOT of caveats and things that need to be explained so that the right decision can be made by the OP. This isn't as simple as adding a different baffle to the "sorta kinda" dry sump system on your old 996. As for it being expensive...that doesn't mean APR is actually selling something.
I'd be willing to bet based on the information that we do have from APR and basic automotive knowledge that the PCV system (it says it in the last section of that post) in the vehicle is getting overloaded during high G-force turning and causing engine oil to be burnt/dumped through the engine and out the tail pipes of the car. What I guess APR is telling Sammy to do is to take the drain portion of his catch can and run a line down to the sump (oil pan) of his car so that this oil is then deposited back into the sump to avoid oil starvation that can occur when the PCV system begins to essentially act like a straw on his engine oil after his catch can fills up. I'm also willing to be that it carries A LOT of caveats and things that need to be explained so that the right decision can be made by the OP. This isn't as simple as adding a different baffle to the "sorta kinda" dry sump system on your old 996. As for it being expensive...that doesn't mean APR is actually selling something.
Gunkata
Drag Race Newbie
thanks for explaining a little more, however - APR did in fact state on Vortex (its gone now, since they deleted their thread and all the posts in it) that they didn't recommend tracking the car at all, w/o this "special mod"/product they can provide/advise on later, but only if you called them and then they left it at that.
The fact remains, I've been in the tuning/car mod community for over 10 years and I've never seen a tuner or vendor make a weird ass vague statement like that.
Lastly, there is no "straw man" here - they never made argument in the first place, I'm simply critiquing how they handled the situation and their statements made during that situation. If you're gonna use hip new terms for logical reasoning and arguing, at least use it right.
The fact remains, I've been in the tuning/car mod community for over 10 years and I've never seen a tuner or vendor make a weird ass vague statement like that.
Lastly, there is no "straw man" here - they never made argument in the first place, I'm simply critiquing how they handled the situation and their statements made during that situation. If you're gonna use hip new terms for logical reasoning and arguing, at least use it right.
Gunkata
Drag Race Newbie
Ah, found the follow-up thread on vortex based on the APR thread, where Arin was quoted as saying:
"Also, since this is a TSI, we've modified a few bits to make it race worthy... without those modifications, I wouldn't dare put a TSI on the track."
So, in conclusion, there was no "straw man" and you are in fact wrong.
"Also, since this is a TSI, we've modified a few bits to make it race worthy... without those modifications, I wouldn't dare put a TSI on the track."
So, in conclusion, there was no "straw man" and you are in fact wrong.
VW-TX
Go Kart Champion
Agreed. This is the only site/tuner I have ever seen say stuff like this instead of helping the customer out and telling everyone on here how to prevent it. Unless they question their advice, then I don't see what the problem is. My350Z has way more mods and way more vendors available and all of them offer advice without any issues.
I say skip APR and force VWOA's hand in coming up with a solution... A car driven hard wether it be a spirited canyon drive or the racetrack should not have blow bye this bad.
E46 m3's had a similar issue where spirited driving would cause oil starvation to critical engine components causing premature rod bearing failures... Causing ultimately blown engines.
BMW's fix?
1) extended engine warranty to 100,000 miles
2) inspected engines for signs of abnormal wear
3) replace engines if too heavily damaged
4) hardware fixes as well
BMW did this for all M3's wether or not they where tracked or heavily modified.
VW should do the same, although the nature of our cause is a bit different.
If I get premature engine wear from a trackday or spirited driving because of this oil issue... VW should fix and replace it... If this oil thing wasn't an issue and I blow my engine I'd take full responsibility...
If VWOA says that subjecting our vehicles to high G loads is outside normal operating parameters and can cause blown engines or wear issues... That would be bad press for VW.
I don't run R -comps yet but I've noticed signs of heavier blow by than normal at track days including oil level that drops and oil in the exhaust.
Imagine a post on autoblog or jalopnik saying VW GTI's can't handle high speed turns cause it leads to premature wear on the engine and blown engines... All the JDM fanboys would jump all over that.
Let's join together and get VWOA to come up with a solution/ fix.
Maybe APR has a solution and they are patent it to sell to VW as a fix...
E46 m3's had a similar issue where spirited driving would cause oil starvation to critical engine components causing premature rod bearing failures... Causing ultimately blown engines.
BMW's fix?
1) extended engine warranty to 100,000 miles
2) inspected engines for signs of abnormal wear
3) replace engines if too heavily damaged
4) hardware fixes as well
BMW did this for all M3's wether or not they where tracked or heavily modified.
VW should do the same, although the nature of our cause is a bit different.
If I get premature engine wear from a trackday or spirited driving because of this oil issue... VW should fix and replace it... If this oil thing wasn't an issue and I blow my engine I'd take full responsibility...
If VWOA says that subjecting our vehicles to high G loads is outside normal operating parameters and can cause blown engines or wear issues... That would be bad press for VW.
I don't run R -comps yet but I've noticed signs of heavier blow by than normal at track days including oil level that drops and oil in the exhaust.
Imagine a post on autoblog or jalopnik saying VW GTI's can't handle high speed turns cause it leads to premature wear on the engine and blown engines... All the JDM fanboys would jump all over that.
Let's join together and get VWOA to come up with a solution/ fix.
Maybe APR has a solution and they are patent it to sell to VW as a fix...
Stanielz
Ready to race!
lol @ "straw man"
Does anyone know if the FSI's had this issue or just TSI? I know FSI's had some beefier PCV fixes. TSI's currently do not have any.
Honestly this is a huge deal for me. I just started auto crossing this year and I plan to track a lot any chance I get (main reason I bought the car). If there's no worth-while/plausible fix then I might be looking at trading this in =/.
shaunraney
That guy.
BMW's E46 M3 was due to contamination of the connecting rod bearings during assembly, not the same issue.
Gunkata
Drag Race Newbie
you should be fine man.
Either way... VW should address this issue and come up with a fix/ solution.
Wether it be spirited driving or track days with R compound tires... That would be a terrible excuse for VW to use if they choose not to address this.
A car shouldn't blow it's engine or cause abnormal wear because it handles too good... Then what's the point of calling the GTI a hot high performance hatch if it can't keep itself from shooting oil out the exhaust on the track.
Otoh maybe our cars are like "Herbie the love bug"... It passes a presumably faster car on the track then it pees oil over the car it just passed
Maybe we should go viral and post a pick of that GTI shooting oil out the exhaust in the middle of a left hand turn to Jalop or autoblog titled GTI handles too good causing loss of oil pressure in it's engine. Just to see how VWOA responds to it.
I'll see how my GTI does this weekend running counter clockwise on the track... Trying to chase down the fastest FWD track time with a street driven, street tired car... I'll just have to carry extra oil with me
Btw same track, CCW, in my former E46 325ci... In one of the left hand off camber hairpin turns the BMW would pull so many G's that power would cut coming out of that turn... I'm guessing from fuel or oil sloshes to one side of the car... But the car never lost oil pressure or spat oil out it's exhaust and the engine has been solid on that car with 140,000 miles with several track days a year since new... And that was just the pedestrian 325ci and not the M3.
Last edited: