UBER-STEALTH Under Floor Sub Install

[phd-12v]

That's cool. I think the side mount subs give you more options in which driver you use, but I really didn't want one there. They use up more space than the under floor model that I'm doing.

You're quite knowledgeable in these things — what do you know about my post right above yours?

your findings are 100% correct. The factory radio does this to protect the speakers, and basically it is almost like an automatic loudness contour. You would need to get a cleansweep or bit one to analyze the sound, then modify it, then output it to the amplifiers. If your only using the sub amp, that could get expensive to just restore the bass equalization the factory radio does.

I did once use the MTX req and that seemed to help out alot on another vehicle i did where i had to tap into the factory speaker outputs.

Audiocontrol has some pieces i have had real good luck with in the past also.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/index.aspx

 

[plac]

One note about length for the power wire. The wiring kit I picked up had 16.5' of power wire. That was the absolute minimum. All I have sticking out in the hatch is what you see in the pic above, and there is not much for slack anywhere. If it was 16' it would have been too close, and maybe too short. If you are locating your amp in the same corner of your hatch, this is definitely a thing to be aware of since many kits have 16' of power wire.

i remember that on my 2009 install. I got 16 ft of power wire. i then recommended at least 18 feet for anyone else.

 

[veedoubleme]

You would need to get a cleansweep or bit one to analyze the sound, then modify it, then output it to the amplifiers. If your only using the sub amp, that could get expensive to just restore the bass equalization the factory radio does.

I did once use the MTX req and that seemed to help out alot on another vehicle i did where i had to tap into the factory speaker outputs.

Audiocontrol has some pieces i have had real good luck with in the past also.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/index.aspx

Yeah, I don't feel like sinking in another $200 (discounted price) for a CleanSweep at this point just to equalize it. It seems like overkill. That AudioControl LC2i is quite intriguing at less than $100 to get the job done — thanks for the link! For now at least I have the level knob for quick/easy adjustment.

i remember that on my 2009 install. I got 16 ft of power wire. i then recommended at least 18 feet for anyone else.

Yes, 18' would give you much more flexibility with routing the cable for sure — that's a good recommendation. :thumbsup:

 

[veedoubleme]

Audiocontrol has some pieces i have had real good luck with in the past also.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/index.aspx

Well dammit... I went and read a ton of reviews on the AudioControl LC2i, what it does, and how well it works. This thing sounds like the absolute ticket, and Crutchfield has it on sale now for $80 and free shipping.

Many of the reviews on Crutchfield outline EXACTLY what I am complaining about, and to be honest, the reviews are SO good that you almost wonder if it's too good to be true. I'll find out next week when it shows up.

 

[plac]

AC has super clean units. Usually 115db SnR.

 

[phd-12v]

Well dammit... I went and read a ton of reviews on the AudioControl LC2i, what it does, and how well it works. This thing sounds like the absolute ticket, and Crutchfield has it on sale now for $80 and free shipping.

Many of the reviews on Crutchfield outline EXACTLY what I am complaining about, and to be honest, the reviews are SO good that you almost wonder if it's too good to be true. I'll find out next week when it shows up.

i have used audiocontrol for over 15 years for my own vehicles......never had any issues with their stuff. just my experience with them as a company. I know some people that work there, and they are pretty awesome on their customer support side also.

 

[phd-12v]

I may not give you guys the cheapest way to do something, but i try and give ideas about what will work the best for the problem.

Sometimes the cheapest way causes more issues...........it pains me to see people ordering radios and stuff from china, and when you add up all the headaches, it is sometimes better to pay a little more and be happy from the get go.

Example: pioneer D3 i have in another car is almost 7 years old and never had an issue.

 

[veedoubleme]

I may not give you guys the cheapest way to do something, but i try and give ideas about what will work the best for the problem.

Sometimes the cheapest way causes more issues.......

I completely agree, and I really appreciate the tip on AC!

Also, it seems silly for me to sink a bunch of money into a quality upgrade, and then dump a shitty signal into it and have it not perform how I want it to.

 

[Staudie]

But here is what I noticed when running some testing with my meter to set the correct input levels on the amp. I'm fairly certain that the Dynaudio system uses some sort of dynamic EQ that boosts the bass more in the lower volume range. As such, when tapping off the rear speakers, you are not getting a linear natural feed for the bass range to the amp.

Why do I think this? With the sub and the level control, if I set the stereo at a comfortable listening volume (say 10 with Bass/Treble/Mid all at 0) and then adjust the sub so that it's at roughly the correct mix, and then turn up the volume to say 18 from there, the sub doesn't get that much louder. Some, but not much. If I turn the level up for the sub so that it's correct for volume level 18, and then turn the volume back down to 10, there is too much bass for volume at 10.

This leads me to believe the dynaudio system pushes extra bass at moderate listening levels, but then levels off as you turn up the volume so that it doesn't over drive the speakers.

veedoubleme,

I notice you tapped into the rear speakers at the b pillar. Im not positive but I think what you are getting is a signal which has been processed through the dynaudio amp. Most of the builds I have seen have tapped in at a location before the Dynaudio amp, or at the HU.

http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28398

~Staudie

 

[veedoubleme]

veedoubleme,

I notice you tapped into the rear speakers at the b pillar. Im not positive but I think what you are getting is a signal which has been processed through the dynaudio amp. Most of the builds I have seen have tapped in at a location before the Dynaudio amp, or at the HU.

http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28398

~Staudie

That link isn't a Dynaudio setup. He tapped the speaker level outputs that come out of the head unit. From everything I have read so far, with Dynaudio the HU sends line level to the amp under the drivers seat, but the volume is controlled through the CAN bus, so the outputs are fixed. If you tap behind the head unit with Dynaudio, the volume control on the head unit will not control the sub. Near as I've been able to figure out with Dynaudio, if you want the volume control on the head unit to also work with the sub, the only way is tap after the amp. I could be misunderstanding it though. If you know otherwise, I'd love to know.

Also, I'd be surprised if the OEM head unit without Dynaudio doesn't also roll of the bass as you turn up the volume. It's easy to tell. If you have remote volume control on your sub turn the head unit up really loud, and adjust the sub so that it sounds good. Then turn down your volume, and the sub will sound too loud. The reverse is true as well, that if you adjust your bass to sound good low, when you turn it up the sub won't sound as loud as it should. The LC2i should fix the bass rolloff that the factory system is doing. I've been reading about it all morning, and I can't wait until it gets here.

 

[phd-12v]

your better off tapping after the amp, let the Audiocontrol do what it is designed to do. I never liked tapping into the preamp section of amplified systems.too many variables exist. The only ones that i did that way were the older bose systems when you could get away with it. If you know anything about MOST systems, you will know why i would just tap the outputs and let the modules do what they do.

 

[veedoubleme]

I did some testing today with test tones, a SPL meter, and REW. The Dynaudio system starts to roll off the bass measurably at in increasing rate in my car when the volume hits 12, and continues to do so above there. In fact, the bass increases in volume slightly less than the midrange does even below 12, but it accelerates at 12, and that's exactly what I was noticing with my ears.

I basically ran a 50 Hz sine wave with the sub on, and measured the dB at each volume level. Then I did the same thing with a 200 Hz sine wave and no sub. I graphed out the delta in dB as a percentage between each increase in volume. I also did the 50 Hz test with the factory speakers and no sub to confirm it was indeed not just my sub, and the results were the same.

Basically the dB increase is about the same rate for each tone as you increase the volume, until 12, at which point the 50 Hz tone increases at a much smaller delta compared to the the 200 Hz tone. And from 15 to 20, the 50 Hz tone almost doesn't increase in volume at all. It only increased in volume by 1.5 dB, whereas the 200 Hz tone increases by 6.5 dB. That's a huge difference.

I did the tests with the sub set within it's range so that I knew I wasn't just hitting the wall of the sub itself. There were also some interesting results in the 5-7 volume range, but I never listen down there, so I didn't care much.

Summary: I'm really glad I ordered the LC2i, and I hope it works as well as everybody says it does. :thumbsup:

 

[veedoubleme]

Since I ordered the LC2i, I need a place to put it, and a way to wire it in. It's 3.25” W x 1.5” H x 6.5" L. The dimensions make it perfect to fit right above the amp location (or below if I move the amp), but I needed to remove more foam for this to happen. I printed a blue square fitting of the dimensions of the LC2i and resized the foam as such:

Also, the LC2i uses terminal blocks instead of RCA jacks for speaker level input connections. Eventually I'll cut of the RCA jacks and directly connect the wires to the terminal block, but for testing and initial hook up I made some female RCA jacks to go into the terminal blocks so I can just plug in the RCA connectors I already have.

 

[veedoubleme]

The LC2i came yesterday, so I wired it up last night. I definitely have a little more tweaking to do, but I'm really impressed by the initial setup I did. It actually fixes the factory bass defeat as the volume goes up! Not only that, the bass is noticeably tighter, more clear, and hits harder. The LC2i is very impressive for the price. For the investment you make to add bass with a sub, it's a no brainer to get this so that you can actually realize the full potential of what you have.

If you are using a standard line out converter, or just running speaker level inputs straight into your amp, you are really missing out on the potential of your sub!

I couldn't be happier! The wiring is not cleaned up yet, and the LC2i isn't mounted in it's final location, so I haven't taken any pictures. Nik told me the sub box should ship out tomorrow, so hopefully sometime next week I'll be able to get the stupid F150 box out of my hatch and clean everything up. I can't wait! :happyanim:

 

[veedoubleme]

I also forgot to mention that I tested the remote turn on capability of the LC2i. I don't know how Audio Control is exactly determining on/off from the speaker wires, but it works FLAWLESSLY. Turn on the head unit, and the amp powers on before the head unit is done booting. Hit mute/pause or do anything to prevent audio from coming out of the speakers, no matter how long I waited, it didn't accidentally turn off. Turn off the head unit, and the amp turns off immediately. It is perfect, and I'm really happy about that. I'll be removing the tap off the rear 12v outlet permanently.