Longevity

[adolan21]

Seems most German car companies achilles heels are the water pump, timing chain tensioner, and high pressure fuel pump. And maybe direct injection problems but that's just the nature of the beast. I know when I was researching E46 BMW's it's common place to replace the whole cooling system at 70K mile intervals because they were known to fail. There are trade offs to every car, it's just what you're willing to deal with. I love the 335i/135i but anything before 2011 is a gamble. Turbo's going out and HPFPs going out, at least they did an extended warranty on both but I mean it's quite a hassle to deal with.

 

[manny2206]

hmmm...

before k04: you didn't expect reliability before k04?

during k04: I postulate that your k04 b0nzer fully eclipsed any expectations, good or bad:laugh:

after k04: I assume this was also after things started happened so it's almost like hindsight?

My 2cents on the topic is that I feel no less secure with APR bolt-ons than I did prior to having them. In fact, I feel better about reliability because, as misguided as this may be, I feel like I put better parts on my car than OEM. That goes for every mod I have planned. By the time I consider BT, there will be plenty of examples of what to expect.

I would like to agree with this philosophy; But I would make the distinction of what parts are "better" in terms of reliability, things like SS, bushings, push rods, bigger breaks.. Those when Upgraded I would consider reliability mods, as they are design to be tougher, and take more punishment.

 

[manny2206]

Seems most German car companies achilles heels are the water pump, timing chain tensioner, and high pressure fuel pump. And maybe direct injection problems but that's just the nature of the beast. I know when I was researching E46 BMW's it's common place to replace the whole cooling system at 70K mile intervals because they were known to fail. There are trade offs to every car, it's just what you're willing to deal with. I love the 335i/135i but anything before 2011 is a gamble. Turbo's going out and HPFPs going out, at least they did an extended warranty on both but I mean it's quite a hassle to deal with.

This^

To add to that, I feel that a lot of people here on the forum haven't owned a wide variety of makes/models/mileage (with exception of couple members that've had 10-15+ cars).

I've had a 1990 galant (4th owner) with 200k, then a 1994 corolla with 130k (I was the 5th owner, my father the fourth) then a 2006 RSX with 60k ( was the second owner) and now my GTI 2012 0 miles.

The galant was barely running... and I mean im surprised a piston didnt blow a hole through the firewall. My dad took excellent care of the 'Rolla and It didn't give him much problems, I had an alternator go on me and battery, tranny mounts were dead and so was the transmission.. the RSX I had was the 5 spd with the k20a3, which is the black sheep of the k series, and not its faster brother the k20a1,z1,z3 variants which were all 2.0 205-210 HP motors... HOWEVER the transmission on the Hondas are known across the forums by being subpart, and under engineer even for stock standard, Just look up 3rd gear grind rsx, or civic si and you will see the million posts of people complaining.. I personally knew of people going through 3-4 transmissions on boosted 300-350 k series... The problem was so bad that anyone who wanted to make power on the engine would upgrade to a PPG tranny.. which is 5 grand.. not to mention that the RSX had poorly designed water seals and "water in my car/trunk" threads were plenty with me suffering from that.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

This really just isn't true. I can say for calibration, which is the bulk APR's business we are on the same level as the OEM (So you have worked side by side with Technicians and engineers of VW to make sure your parts don't have reliability issues?). We have files that will give the location to anything and everything in the ECU(A file doesn't mean anything as to the location of something, you need to UNDERSTAND how it works, go find the TDI forums and ask any DSG shifted TDI who Tried your tune then went Malone or UNI). The same files that the OEM has. We have our own files that will do the same thing, we developed a tuning suite on our own and a data-logger that reads outputs straight out of RAM. Any engine that is being worked on, we've had it out in pieces and have seen the official OEM blue prints for these products. I'm 100% sure, when it comes to the tools/equipment to calibrate a car, we're in a league of our own in the aftermarket(so you put yourselves above Hennessy and Edelbrock? . Since that is the case why does it matter if we are in the US and developing this stuff for a German car?It doesn't matter where you are at, it matters who you work with, if the car is GERMAN then you should be working with the Engineers to manufacture the stuff properly, you don't see Edelbrock developing stuff for GM without consulting them, or Hennessy when they made the Hennessy CTS V Wagon...


We have a calibrator here that did work for the OEM but what ended up being important is his experience outside of the OEM. When looking to hire calibrators, get this.. OEM guys aren't the top choice. They normally lack ingenuity and work at a slower-pace Work at a slower pace doesn't mean crappy work, it means they are being careful at what they put out, and double, even triple checking their math.. The OEM guys, even the ones from Germany are trained and think differently. They aren't reverse engineering anything, it's entirely different. When we develop a product, we have the accredited engineers to start from the ground up. We have the tools like SLA, 3D scanning, CFD and other appropriate Engineering software that the OEM uses. Our flow bench, you can find this same equipment at any Tier 1 OEM. Fancy Terms there guy, but still, just designing something from the ground up to replace something that took YEARS to develop, doesn't mean it is good for the car... I think if you really want to make a difference and get all the HATE off the forums (I see a lot on 3 different sites I'm on), you will step back and ask yourself, "why are so many people, diesel and gas, having reliability issues with the Entire Car after our stuff is installed?" I think you will find that your part is Engineered well, but doesn't work as the Original Engineers planned it to. You don't see people slapping on Blowers or Turbos from any old company to a Vette or Viper, or to their NSX or GTR, do you? Nope, they go for the company that worked with the Manufacturing team to make sure their AFTERMARKET product is OEM approved and will not hurt reliability



Country of Origin, I don't think makes a difference. I've seen things come out of China that were quality, I've seen things come from America that were absolute junk and vice versa. The only thing that needs to be considered is the company itself, the staff of said company and the resources of said company to perform proper R&D. Exactly what I said, if you don't have OEM Approved Aftermarket parts, then why buy from you if the person is wanting Reliability of their ENTIRE Ride?

For example, APR's products are by and large manufactured in the USA. This isn't because everything made in the USA is automatically superior, it's because communication is much easier and it's much easier to physically see where things are made

You're entitled to your opinion, I think many would disagree with it though. Yes, and I will still speak up about a company that isn't OEM approved, or used by the OEM race teams... If it was OEM approved, then we wouldn't have people coming on here asking why their GTI, TDI, R, or 2.5L isn't working right after 10k miles of use...

But anyways, APR as a whole has some great stuff as far as suspension tuning, but I will only stick OEM approved stuff under my hood, and if Malone or UNI is good tuners for the Germans (which when asking the EU guys on Vortex, they never heard of APR), then they are good enough for my car. Plus I want my TDI to last (if I had a GTI or R or 2.5, I'd want that to last too), but when every thread of every problem people are encountering has a common denomenator (at least with TDIs) as APR Tune, then No Thank you ma'am, I'll take my money elsewhere)

 

[Gunkata]

 

[troyguitar]

:word:

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

This is true. Another modification vs. reliability topic.

Plus the marginal cost it takes to MFG a valve spring to handle OEM levels is ideal and definitely not wrong of VW to do. IT would be a waste of money to design springs that should handle 3 times what they expect.

And that is what I'm getting at, you start adding stuff to increase beyond what the parts are engineered for, then you are asking for it...


My opinion is, if a company, Seems like we are all talking APR here-but any company, wants to make an aftermarket Turbo, S/C, Tune, Exhaust, or Intake should look the ENTIRE Picture, not just the 1/2sqft of space they are working on. Edelbrock doesn't go out and manufacture a new Supercharge without doing MONTHS even YEARS of testing before it is released. This is to make sure that (A) the part isn't going to fail, (B) it won't cause issues with factory systems, and (C) if something is going to be a 'weak link' they include those parts with it the part in their kit.

 

[troyguitar]

There is a reason APR is often the last company to release a product - they do actually test things.

JHM is the same way for the B6 and B7 S4's... the cars have been out for over 10 years now and JHM didn't release their supercharger kit until like 2 years ago for the low boost stage 1 kit. Stage 2 and 3 are still in testing.

It's a pain to wait so long, but it appears that at least some of these companies are doing it right.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

There is a reason APR is often the last company to release a product - they do actually test things.

JHM is the same way for the B6 and B7 S4's... the cars have been out for over 10 years now and JHM didn't release their supercharger kit until like 2 years ago for the low boost stage 1 kit. Stage 2 and 3 are still in testing.

It's a pain to wait so long, but it appears that at least some of these companies are doing it right.

Well, they obviously haven't done LONG TERM Testing with the MK6 and their Tunes... There are a Lot of issues with those, and some issues with the parts they develop to "beef up" the parts they replacing. Just saying

 

[D Griff]

The good thing about the "omgvwsarecrap" trend on here, is it's making me want to keep mine to prove that it is a decent car that will last. Maybe this will keep me from spending a bunch of dough on a new 'Stang for longer :laugh:

 

[grambles423]

hmmm...

before k04: you didn't expect reliability before k04?

during k04: I postulate that your k04 b0nzer fully eclipsed any expectations, good or bad:laugh:

after k04: I assume this was also after things started happened so it's almost like hindsight?

My 2cents on the topic is that I feel no less secure with APR bolt-ons than I did prior to having them. In fact, I feel better about reliability because, as misguided as this may be, I feel like I put better parts on my car than OEM. That goes for every mod I have planned. By the time I consider BT, there will be plenty of examples of what to expect.

My K04 Bonerz was too large and drained too much blood from my brain.

And afterwards, yes everything all happened at once, strangely. Everything that SHOUDLVE happened prior to my warranty end.

And that is what I'm getting at, you start adding stuff to increase beyond what the parts are engineered for, then you are asking for it...

I see your point. I really do. Anything outside of OEM standards WILL impact systems that aren't accounted for. Hence less reliability.

I'm merely talking about VW inconsistency outside of all that. Aftermarket parts will only fuel that matter. (And apparently, K04s)

 

[aw6141]

The good thing about the "omgvwsarecrap" trend on here, is it's making me want to keep mine to prove that it is a decent car that will last. Maybe this will keep me from spending a bunch of dough on a new 'Stang for longer :laugh:

it is making me want to keep my engine stock minus the intake b/c the gti is too quiet :laugh:

suspension parts and bushings I can deal with and diy on my own or with friends to replace. Now exterior parts, and other visual things I'll do lol.

 

[Bronson@APR]

(So you have worked side by side with Technicians and engineers of VW to make sure your parts don't have reliability issues?). (A file doesn't mean anything as to the location of something, you need to UNDERSTAND how it works, go find the TDI forums and ask any DSG shifted TDI who Tried your tune then went Malone or UNI).

Yes, we have. We developed the SEMA GTI with VW. We developed the intercooler to go on a certain VWoA excecutive's car. Yeah, we don't understand what the maps do.

It doesn't matter where you are at, it matters who you work with, if the car is GERMAN then you should be working with the Engineers to manufacture the stuff properly, you don't see Edelbrock developing stuff for GM without consulting them, or Hennessy when they made the Hennessy CTS V Wagon...

We had Audi Sport working with us at the Rolex series, they flew from Germany. We worked hand and hand with them. We've done this before too.

Work at a slower pace doesn't mean crappy work, it means they are being careful at what they put out, and double, even triple checking their math..

No.

Fancy Terms there guy, but still, just designing something from the ground up to replace something that took YEARS to develop, doesn't mean it is good for the car... I think if you really want to make a difference and get all the HATE off the forums (I see a lot on 3 different sites I'm on), you will step back and ask yourself, "why are so many people, diesel and gas, having reliability issues with the Entire Car after our stuff is installed?" I think you will find that your part is Engineered well, but doesn't work as the Original Engineers planned it to. You don't see people slapping on Blowers or Turbos from any old company to a Vette or Viper, or to their NSX or GTR, do you? Nope, they go for the company that worked with the Manufacturing team to make sure their AFTERMARKET product is OEM approved and will not hurt reliability

lol.

Exactly what I said, if you don't have OEM Approved Aftermarket parts, then why buy from you if the person is wanting Reliability of their ENTIRE Ride?

lol.

Yes, and I will still speak up about a company that isn't OEM approved, or used by the OEM race teams... If it was OEM approved, then we wouldn't have people coming on here asking why their GTI, TDI, R, or 2.5L isn't working right after 10k miles of use...

Our products are used by OEM Race teams. They've used our HPFP in their Motorsport applications. We've raced side by side with them in the past.

This isn't going to go anywhere.

argument\

 

[NYCSuits]

^ LOL

My 2 Cents...you don't get to where APR is without doing stuff properly.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

Yes, we have. We developed the SEMA GTI with VW. We developed the intercooler to go on a certain VWoA excecutive's car. Yeah, we don't understand what the maps do.


We had Audi Sport working with us at the Rolex series, they flew from Germany. We worked hand and hand with them. We've done this before too.



No.



lol.



lol.



Our products are used by OEM Race teams. They've used our HPFP in their Motorsport applications. We've raced side by side with them in the past.

This isn't going to go anywhere.

argument\

Funny, I can't find you all anywhere as far as OEM Race teams go... I find yall in Race teams who Use VW products, but not the Race team themselves... Google is King after all and the first things when you search for OEM Race teams who use APR is nothing but APR websites, so :iono:


I'm just saying, your parts are over engineered for the whole package, and I see no where a complete package. Have fun in your World of Dilusion over there... I'm done making a very clear point that your products are great over all, but HURT the car's reliability in the long run.

Oh, and one last thing, you say you all work well with Audi, then explain this http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/413062-Complaint-toward-APR-ECU-Tune-and-APR-itself
so what it got fixed, the problem is if your product is so well "engineered" there shouldn't be a "fix" done to make it "right"