thedude4bides
Go Kart Champion
What does it mean for an intake to be "precise"? Just trying to fully understand what you mean. Thanks!
6
Am I running rich?
- Thread starter thedude4bides
- Start date
What does it mean for an intake to be "precise"? Just trying to fully understand what you mean. Thanks!
The MAF sensor is calibrated to the stock intakes diameter. Aftermarket intakes that use the same diameter won't cause issues because the MAF is still properly working. If you increase the diameter of the piping then more air is passing the MAF than it thinks due to the larger volume of air the pipe can hold. In most cases this will cause you to run a bit lean, since there is more air and not enough fuel.
slackin via taptalk
Modshack1
Go Kart Champion
thedude4bides
Go Kart Champion
Based on everything i am hearing and what I have experienced, I am 99% ready to blame the intake. I hope that's the case.
I haven't had the chance to go back to stock due to me being a noob when it comes to tinkering around under the hood. I lost the screws that attach the air scoop to the front grill. I'll be at the dealer for my courtesy check this Thursday, which I scheduled before any of this happened. That means this should be resolved by Thursday at the latest.
I'll update once I get any info.
I haven't had the chance to go back to stock due to me being a noob when it comes to tinkering around under the hood. I lost the screws that attach the air scoop to the front grill. I'll be at the dealer for my courtesy check this Thursday, which I scheduled before any of this happened. That means this should be resolved by Thursday at the latest.
I'll update once I get any info.
MKV727
Go Kart Champion
You don't need screws to attach the stock scoop, buy the Carbonio!
I own a Carbonio and my MAF sees 202 g/s in 82F ambient with humid Florida conditions. I'm on a BW K03 and anything over 200 g/s is considered excellent for MAF readings and couple that with the ambient conditions and 202 g/s is great flow. I have a Carbonio intake, VWR panel filter and I removed 2 of the directional fins in the engine cover (this showed a verified gain).
If the intake is causing the issues you will need to replace it, if that's the case I highly recommend a system that is proven to have excellent build quality or has a stock MAF section. The Carbonio fits awesome and looks great, the foam panel filter has decent surface area, the MAF is OEM so no worries there, it's insulated from heat while drawing from the coolest location and carbon fiber also dissipates heat very well. VWR intake is probably the best option as it has been verified to work with APR's tune which is calibrated with the stock MAF dimensions, has an enclosed foam filter and has tubing that goes all the way back to the compressor inlet.
Remember, cold air = dense air = more air. The MAF reads it in g/s via sending a voltage to the EMS and collects the temperature to use a density conversion factor.
Replace that POS CTS piece and enjoy your car again.
thedude4bides
Go Kart Champion
Since I don't have the Carbonio, I kinda do need them...
True. But I won't know this until I swap stock back in and run more logs...
Even if timing corrects and I'm not running as rich anymore after installing stock intake, it might not be the intake after all...
It might be the combo of CTS + Unitronics, right? I mean, is it possible the CTS intake could work well with other tunes? If not I will troll every CTS post I ever find... mods ban me now :lol:
MKV727
Go Kart Champion
I really do not know enough about Unitronic's tuning practices/capabilities to give you a good answer.
If its a stage 1+ tune according to their website that means 93 octane + air intake. I have no clue what air intake they used to make the tune so I can't comment on how the tune would react to a poor MAF housing. If your tune ran well without it though and you haven't added anything other than the intake since then it's logical to think its to blame.
I will say this, I'm not crazy about CTS Turbo. Their intake is a one off copy of BSH's, their boost tap is identical to APR's and their IC appears to be made in the same Chinese factory as Eurojet, Unitronic or SPM's. The intake may have a different weld somewhere to stop any kind of suit and they have admitted to buying APR's tap and sending it to china for reproduction as APR would not give them enough margin on their own boost tap to sell on their site and while APR's product was designed in house by somebody making an American wage they got to skip production and mass produce the component for pennies.
Took a look for you, timing is pulling like crazy. It does look like bad gas as mentioned. What Octane fuel are you using.
Also, I do not see it as too rich. The more timing (in this case pull) the more fuel the ECU will dump to try and counter it. You are meeting your requested lambda and fuel pressures so there is not an issue with the fuel system itself. I run .73 all the time on my car as VCDS sees it, I have 0 pull and alot more timing than you.
Next, I see you are saying less pull with the factory intake as CTS's. Try putting back CTS's and undo the battery for 5-10 minutes and relog after about 20-30 minutes of varied driving. This will allow fuel trims to be reset properly. Also when switching measure the diameter of the MAF housing factory vs CTS.
To me it looks like the fuel trims have not reset properly or the quality of your fuel is very poor or both. I would measure the diameter of the MAF housings as assurance though.
Unitronic tunes with the factory MAF housing in the factory location. As long as the diameters are correct (I would think they are) then the CTS intake should not cause the timing pull. The location of the MAF on the R intake is after the long strait so the airflow should not be turbulent and its not a ram air so you should be fine.
Measure the intake, install if correct, reset the ecu by undoing the Batt and let adapt and re-log the perameters I PM'd you.
PS: You may also want to check the misfire counter, are you running a NGK 7 heat range at a .28 gap? if not go buy a set.
Also, I do not see it as too rich. The more timing (in this case pull) the more fuel the ECU will dump to try and counter it. You are meeting your requested lambda and fuel pressures so there is not an issue with the fuel system itself. I run .73 all the time on my car as VCDS sees it, I have 0 pull and alot more timing than you.
Next, I see you are saying less pull with the factory intake as CTS's. Try putting back CTS's and undo the battery for 5-10 minutes and relog after about 20-30 minutes of varied driving. This will allow fuel trims to be reset properly. Also when switching measure the diameter of the MAF housing factory vs CTS.
To me it looks like the fuel trims have not reset properly or the quality of your fuel is very poor or both. I would measure the diameter of the MAF housings as assurance though.
Unitronic tunes with the factory MAF housing in the factory location. As long as the diameters are correct (I would think they are) then the CTS intake should not cause the timing pull. The location of the MAF on the R intake is after the long strait so the airflow should not be turbulent and its not a ram air so you should be fine.
Measure the intake, install if correct, reset the ecu by undoing the Batt and let adapt and re-log the perameters I PM'd you.
PS: You may also want to check the misfire counter, are you running a NGK 7 heat range at a .28 gap? if not go buy a set.
thedude4bides
Go Kart Champion
Thanks for taking a look:thumbsup: first thing to note is that I only used shell 93 and Sunoco 93. Second thing is that the first logs were run on the shell 93 and second logs on the Sunoco 93. Same CTS intake both times. The second logs were run after resetting adaptation and varied driving for 75 miles. This eliminated bad fuel as a culprit. I don't have the air scoop screws to put my stock intake back in. I'll likely be able to do that after I see the dealer on thurs.
Got it, are you still running factory spark plugs? Its possible the heat range is to hot causing slight missfires and thus pulling timing.
MKV727
Go Kart Champion
OP - I got to a computer and have looked at your logs, I am having issues with how you collected the data but I'm currently looking at the set of data ending in "-1145".
Here is what I'm gathering, the EMS cannot hit a comfort zone to where it will feel okay to allow the BTDC to advance to its intended target written in by the calibrator. It's jumping everywhere rather than a decrease under high boost and a steady advance to redline. It could be because your car had adapted to a fuel trim and was in equilibrium with the stock air intake and now that the CTS has been installed those same fuel trims are no longer valid.
The car was comfortable with the stock intake and the MAF reading 180 g/s amount of air and getting a resulting AFR with an (arbitrary) value 11.1. Now the MAF is reading a 185 g/s amount of air and getting an AFR with a much leaner mixture. This will cause the EMS to read hotter combustion temperatures than what is expected, causing high temperatures and thus added fuel + timing backing off is the result. This will cause the EMS to alter the LTFT (Long term fuel trims) and have it seek another equilibrium. As you can imagine this entire process doesn't result in optimum performance.
Fooling with the battery will reset the fuel trims to 0 and reset the adaptation. Perhaps the new adaptation period will allow a LTFT that will better cope with the CTS Intake, that's all resetting the EMS will do for you. The EMS reads the MAF value with a fixed cross sectional area, it will still receive inaccurate readings from the CTS Intake.
All of this could be conjecture and it could be bad gas, I rarely see it happen though.
Here is what I'm gathering, the EMS cannot hit a comfort zone to where it will feel okay to allow the BTDC to advance to its intended target written in by the calibrator. It's jumping everywhere rather than a decrease under high boost and a steady advance to redline. It could be because your car had adapted to a fuel trim and was in equilibrium with the stock air intake and now that the CTS has been installed those same fuel trims are no longer valid.
The car was comfortable with the stock intake and the MAF reading 180 g/s amount of air and getting a resulting AFR with an (arbitrary) value 11.1. Now the MAF is reading a 185 g/s amount of air and getting an AFR with a much leaner mixture. This will cause the EMS to read hotter combustion temperatures than what is expected, causing high temperatures and thus added fuel + timing backing off is the result. This will cause the EMS to alter the LTFT (Long term fuel trims) and have it seek another equilibrium. As you can imagine this entire process doesn't result in optimum performance.
Fooling with the battery will reset the fuel trims to 0 and reset the adaptation. Perhaps the new adaptation period will allow a LTFT that will better cope with the CTS Intake, that's all resetting the EMS will do for you. The EMS reads the MAF value with a fixed cross sectional area, it will still receive inaccurate readings from the CTS Intake.
All of this could be conjecture and it could be bad gas, I rarely see it happen though.
thedude4bides
Go Kart Champion
I went to advanced measuring and loaded a file that came with vcds software. For 2.0T (& Diesel) they have like 7 files you can load with pre-selected blocks. Not good?