Excessive oil blow by when using R-comps?

[SuPeR GTi]

I had this happen to me last November at an auto-x event. Was running Dunlop Direzza Z1's.

Some dipshit at the dealership overfilled my crankcase at my 40k service. Got tons of smoke in the middle of my 2nd run, but no visible fluid leaks. I immediately feared a head gasket failure but thankfully that wasn't the case.

Have run two auto-x events so far this month and no repeat of the issue...fingers crossed.

tsi or fsi?

 

[maxtdi]

Because racecar... :laugh:

 

[Swoope]

I have some more information to add, along with a word of caution.

I was at Willow Springs International Raceway yesterday, on the big track. Had a great first session but when I pulled into the pits I noticed my engine was running rough and bucking -- there were no symptoms on the track but the CEL was on solid.

I had my laptop and VCDS cable with me and found DTCs for the following:

000768 -- Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
000010 -- Camshaft Positioner (Bank 1 Intake)
000769 -- Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
000770 -- Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
000771 -- Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
001286 -- Idle Control System RPM Lower than Expected

My catch can was full and the dipstick oil level below minimum.

The car was towed to Eurocode Tuning in Torrance but the engine won't be inspected until this coming week. This is speculation on my part, but I think they will find damaged intake valves.

I believe what happened is that enough oil was lost from the oil pan to starve the oil pump during hard cornering. While the cylinders and pistons will survive brief oil starvation, the timing chain tensioner requires oil pressure to operate and keep the chain from slipping.

I'll provide updates as I find out more, but I would urge anyone with a TSI engine to exercise extreme caution with high lateral G turns.

tires?

beers

 

[maxtdi]

This condition persists on stock tires also... A major car mag
Posted a vid flogging a tsi powered vw, and it was smoking like crazy due to oil being burned

 

[Rotaryknight]

Would the Forge CC do anything? The Africa plate removes the PCV system according to their site. I know OP is running a CC so just wondering if this style of CC would make any difference what so ever.

 

[alexgc]

I had this happen to me last November at an auto-x event. Was running Dunlop Direzza Z1's.

Some dipshit at the dealership overfilled my crankcase at my 40k service. Got tons of smoke in the middle of my 2nd run, but no visible fluid leaks. I immediately feared a head gasket failure but thankfully that wasn't the case.

Have run two auto-x events so far this month and no repeat of the issue...fingers crossed.

tsi or fsi?

TSI.

 

[Tireiron Mike]

Great, and I just got my R888's

 

[PandaGTI]

This condition persists on stock tires also... A major car mag
Posted a vid flogging a tsi powered vw, and it was smoking like crazy due to oil being burned

What car mag was this? link to the article?

Would the Forge CC do anything? The Africa plate removes the PCV system according to their site. I know OP is running a CC so just wondering if this style of CC would make any difference what so ever.

I think the Africa plate just replaces the factory PCV with a more robust setup... still doesn't prevent the issue.

I think the problem is that with high G turns, all the oil gets picked sloshed to one side of the engine, gets picked up by the PCV like a vacuum, and shoots it into the intake track, through the cylinders, and out the exhaust. A catch can just catches this extra oil and keeps it in the catch can... still leading to an oil starved engine

The oem style air/ oil separater suggested on another thread actually returns the oil back to the system minimizing oil loss which will help somewhat. However that PCV will still suck the oil back up causing oil starvation in high G turns.

I'm having my tech look into adding in a 3 qt Accusump which stores extra oil and automatically releases it into the engine when pressure drops during a high speed turn then quickly refills itself between turns. Should easily be able to integrate it with my external oil cooler. It's not a drysump setup, but should be more than adequate for weekend track events. The other plus side to an accusump is that it will pre oil the engine when first starting the car leading to less wear and tear.

Maybe the solution is going to be Accusump + oem style air/ oil seperator which returns the blown out oil back to the oil pan.

 

[maxtdi]

What car mag was this? link to the article?

I have been looking for that video/article but I can't seem to find it. They described it exactly as you did, PCV sucking up the oil and dumping it into the engine.

Wouldn't the simple fix be a "block" to the PCV system during a race day?

 

[PandaGTI]

I have been looking for that video/article but I can't seem to find it. They described it exactly as you did, PCV sucking up the oil and dumping it into the engine.

Wouldn't the simple fix be a "block" to the PCV system during a race day?

no because the PCV acts to relieve gases in the engine... keeping those gases in the engine will be harmful to the engine itself.

hmmm maybe we should start a new thread and call out the tuners that race (APR/ Forge) to see what they do about it... put them on the spot rather than letting them say, "contact our race division and pay them for the expensive solution"

I just don't get why APR is so secretive about it!!!

 

[maxtdi]

Well they are all talking about some kind of NDA... I am going to guess someone in VW HQ saw a valid issue and decided to put on a lid on it, since it would harm the reputation and image of the GTI.

No one wants to hear that hard cornering blows up your engine...

While keeping the gasses in the engine may be harmful I would think that dumping a quart of oil into the cylinders and then through the cats etc is significantly more harmful.

 

[PandaGTI]

Well they are all talking about some kind of NDA... I am going to guess someone in VW HQ saw a valid issue and decided to put on a lid on it, since it would harm the reputation and image of the GTI.

No one wants to hear that hard cornering blows up your engine...

While keeping the gasses in the engine may be harmful I would think that dumping a quart of oil into the cylinders and then through the cats etc is significantly more harmful.

So APR and Forge has a non disclosure agreement with VWOA? and that's why they won't spill the beans?!?!? WTF?

This is similar in nature to the Audi TT's that would loose control if driven fast over a crested road because aerodynamics would cause lift at the rear end... remember... Audi had to stop selling first gen TT's and recall the sold ones to add rear spoilers, and rework the rear suspension...

So now VWOA wants to keep this a secret with GTI's rather than figure out a fix for the problem such as a reworked PCV system or an accusump?

I know this is an issue on other cars... but it doesn't happen as easily on other cars as it does on the GTI...

 

[maxtdi]

So APR and Forge has a non disclosure agreement with VWOA? and that's why they won't spill the beans?!?!? WTF?

This is similar in nature to the Audi TT's that would loose control if driven fast over a crested road because aerodynamics would cause lift at the rear end... remember... Audi had to stop selling first gen TT's and recall the sold ones to add rear spoilers, and rework the rear suspension...

So now VWOA wants to keep this a secret with GTI's rather than figure out a fix for the problem such as a reworked PCV system or an accusump?

I know this is an issue on other cars... but it doesn't happen as easily on other cars as it does on the GTI...

APR does, not sure about forge. I mean lets be honest here, this affects only a very small % of GTI owners, but they tend to be the most vocal, enthusiastic about the car and can really escalate this issue.

That said, one has to bear in mind that GTI is a great handling day to day car, but flogging it around a track may be a bit too much to handle and issues are expected

 

[PandaGTI]

APR does, not sure about forge. I mean lets be honest here, this affects only a very small % of GTI owners, but they tend to be the most vocal, enthusiastic about the car and can really escalate this issue.

That said, one has to bear in mind that GTI is a great handling day to day car, but flogging it around a track may be a bit too much to handle and issues are expected

Like I said... similar issue to the first gen Audi TT... if driven excessively higher than the speed limit over a crest... the rear end lift will cause the TT to spin out and crash. People said, well the owners shouldn't be driving it in a spirited manner... but it's a sports car and Audi recalled and made appropriate fixes to them even though not all the owners drive the car above legal limits.

Similar issue with the Nissan 370Z Nismo edition... remember the magazine test where they totalled the car because the brakes failed... Nissan or other enthusiast didn't go and say only a small percentage of owner track the car so we are not gonna do anything about it... they changed the brake compounds until it worked right.

The GTI is also a sports car that has the reputation of being an all purpose swiss army knife of cars that can be flogged around a track on the weekend and be comfortable as a practical daily driver.

This blow by/ oil starvation issue gives the GTI the reputation that it handles too good for it's own engine!!!

 

[maxtdi]

This blow by/ oil starvation issue gives the GTI the reputation that it handles too good for it's own engine!!!

Agreed, but I believe this is not a "simple" fix like adding a spoiler or what not to the audi and changing out brake fluid/pads on the Nissan.

This is due to the transverse location of the engine and PCV pickup etc, unless one blocks it completely or installs some kind of fluid/gas filter I don't see it being a simple fix at all

Its a bummer, I am kind of eyeing a 4 door gti nowadays to be an jackofalltrades but i may wait until the next gen.