Review: South Bend Stage 2 Daily Driver (newest revision)

Good afternoon ladies and gents,

3 weeks ago I went stage 2. Upon leaving the shop, my clutch was slipping badly in 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th. Great... I babied it for quite a while, and I dug deep into my savings to buy a new clutch (I am a college student). I heard and researched the stage 3 "drop in" disk. It had pretty good reviews all over, and I don't plan on K04 anytime soon. However my philosophy is to do it right the first time. So I wanted to go all out. Plus I thought, same labor cost either way, so I want a clutch that is going to last me the lifetime of the car.

I purchased a used stage 2 DD Clutch Kit from a user (Norsk / Greg), however to be refreshed with the new edition parts through South Bend Clutch. I had it installed yesterday at Axis Motoring in Orlando, a fantastic VW-focused shop.

Greg was selling this clutch kit in the classified section of these forums. He was selling it "refreshed" by South Bend for $850 without TOB, "with flywheel bolts". I managed to get it for $800 with shipping, which I thought was a good deal for what I expected to be like-new parts. The clutch had only been in used for 10K miles or less according to Greg, and Jon from South Bend had told Greg there was "95% life left on the clutch" and that the kit was in "excellent condition." I bought the NLS Clutch Shim Kit ($90) to avoid problems with shifting, a TOB (F revision, $100), and then paid $400 labor. Total was $1390 installed - $275 refund = $1115. I paid Greg on Tuesday the 9th. Greg handed the kit to SBC for refreshment on Tuesday, SBC shipped it to me Thursday, I got it Monday.

The installation process went by very smoothly, took only 4 hours (thanks to the expertise of Ivan - the owner), despite my non-stop questions about each step-by-step process. When Ivan took out my clutch, he noted it was in great shape, very little hot spots, almost like new. This was the old clutch:



(now begins the rant)

However, when we got to taking the new clutch apart to install it, Ivan and I were SHOCKED by the condition of the flywheel and pressure plate. The clutched I received was extensively worn, burnt, and used. South Bend clutch had not resurfaced anything. The flywheel was glazed over, completely filled with hot spots all over, and burnt to the point of being uneven. Ivan said the clutch looked like it had been involved in drag racing, launches, and high-power applications and abuse. The clutch was toasted, obviously. Here are the pictures just for reference:

















Add'l photos:
http://s15.postimg.org/w7cxm37cr/IMG_1066.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/mf5o2p723/IMG_1060.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/4dmj4wd17/IMG_1061.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/r7aw0eccb/IMG_1054.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/xfw7tz9x7/IMG_1050.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/4ervkkph7/IMG_1051.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/l3xwu8bgb/IMG_1063.jpg

Now, just to add icing on the cake, flywheel bolts were not included. I received an incomplete kit with bad parts. Greg (who I bought the kit from) had said flywheel bolts would be included and requested SBC to include them. I am appalled and disgusted to have received such a worn and torn clutch with missing flywheel bolts.

I feel that South Bend Clutch was unprofessional. According to their first post (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49165), the refreshment is on a case-by-case basis and they will not accept an excessively worn pressure plate or flywheel. I feel it is unacceptable that they took this kit in with excessive wear and tear to the point of being warped, did not refurbish it correctly (no resurfacing), and then sent it to me, missing flywheel bolts.

South Bend told Greg that his clutch was in "excellent condition", and that the PP and FW had "95% life remaining". I am not sure what I'm supposed to think of this. My stock clutch with nearly 17000 miles was ten times better condition than this one.

I am still working out everything with Greg (read about: http://golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=58001). South Bend states that "the glazing is normal." That is a lot more than glazing. And if I have any more problems, I am going to have to pay another $400 labor just to fix it, plus cost of parts (another $1100 for a new clutch kit?)

Overall, it is a big misunderstanding between Greg, South Bend, and I. A mess.

TL;DR: I am out $1400 for a burnt out clutch with missing parts. Don't buy used clutches.

edit: Greg did refund me $275 for the abnormally used parts. Great guy!

(end rant)

My issues with the purchase aside, I will now discuss my feelings about the clutch. I drove about 100 miles on it yesterday so I got a pretty good feel.

-SMFW: I love the single mass flywheel. The revs go up and down so much quicker. When I was stock, I would wait for the revs to drop in order to rev match all my shifts, and rev match for the downshifts as well. This is all so much easier and way quicker now, this is my favorite aspect of the clutch kit. Rev hang is there sometimes, but even with rev hang the RPMs are still dropping, just more slowly for a second. It is MUCH less prevalent now. I really enjoy it.

-Clutch feel: I would say its 3-5 times stiffer than stock. Stock is a joke. I really like having a feel for the clutch. I'm not sure how the NLS clutch shim kit would do to affect this, but it feels great. The engagement point is pretty much the same as before, it is just a lot firmer. But definitely not enough to become a chore - I would say it's perfect.

-Noise: There is quite a bit of noise (first 200 miles). There is a rattly chatter at idle. With A/C it is audible, but not horrible. The greatest added noise is gear lash. In the low RPMs (I would say 800-2000), you can definitely hear it if you listen, both accelerating and decelerating. I'm not sure if the uneven flywheel/pressure plate surfaces would do anything to affect this though, as others don't seem to have noticed. There is gear lash at any RPM when decelerating, but definitely not too obnoxious for an aftermarket clutch. See videos below for noise.

-Engagement: Very much like stock. A bit quicker, but totally controllable. I haven't stalled with it. It doesn't take an expert driver to use this clutch. It is probably about 2x easier (and lighter) than my father's 2006 Mustang GT.

*edit* There is clutch shutter upon engagement. I suspect this is due to the flywheel and/or pressure plate being uneven. Does that count as defective? I literally just got this installed yesterday.

I haven't done any WOT runs, and I have been in stock mode since I got it to "break it in". Not sure if a break-in applicable with such an abused flywheel and pressure plate, but I am still doing it to be safe. I heard that with a used flywheel and pressure plate, the clutch may not bed in correctly. I am a bit worried about this. I am hoping that, after I "break it in" (I'll go 500-600 miles), it won't slip on WOT. It better not. I will have spent $1400 for nothing.

I'll keep you guys updated throughout the week. Any questions, just ask. I am hoping South Bend and/or Greg can help me out with this situation, especially if any problems arise because of it. Greg said that there is a 1 year/12000 mile warranty. I hope none of you guys get stuck in this crappy situation.

VIDEOS:
Just driving around (Inside, windows up, no air conditioning - vent on 1)





No ventilation, closed windows, low speeds:





Chatter at idle:





Effect of accessory belt on chatter:



Here is a new idle clutch chatter vid:



As you can see, it's almost a weird rattling at idle. A/C doesn't affect it much.



You can buy this kit new from Ringer Racing for $1025 shipped with a coupon code. At $900, I was horrifically ripped off.

Sorry man. Sucks

Yep. It's actually a lot noisier than I thought, especially at idle. It sounds like an inconsistent rattle almost, like when I had an engine mount insert in and it would vibrate.

Since it is a technical discussion, what does the worn flywheel and pressure plate do to the "break-in" period? The friction plate is new, but the flywheel+PP are not. I heard it can mess it up, or it can already be "broken in".

Lastly, would stop and go driving help with the glazing and hot spots? Or the unevenness?

Do the chatter levels typically go down?

I don't care about the pedal feel, I love it as is. That and the light SMFW are the best parts of the kit.

I just hope it lasts. I'm guessing it won't.

how do you know this is the newest revision? Do you have any pictures of the clutch disc?

Mustache rash said:

how do you know this is the newest revision? Do you have any pictures of the clutch disc?

Click to expand...

I requested Jon to ship Pierre aka Fleron with latest revision clutch disc and Refresh/rebuilt kit along with brand new flywheel bolts.

Turns out he didn't do what I asked him to. All he did was clean it and include the new clutch disc.

I am in communication with Jon.

First response when I asked him to explain to me after hearing the devastating news from Pierre - "The clutch is fine. I personally inspected it. The pressure plate and flywheel were not rebuilt because they were in good enough condition to reuse. They may be dirty, but they will perfect."

I send him pics of it. He response - "That shows typical wear for a low mileage clutch. That is ok to use. The friction disc is what gets worn down."

I asked my mechanic who removed the SBC and installed FX350 about this. He said he wouldn't use the fresh clutch disc with the flywheel and pressure plate in its current state of condition. I agrees with him.

It was the 4-spring hub design. Brand new disk, only thing that was done in the "refreshment."

I have the same setup and yours is much louder. Some cars are louder then others as we discovered through the reviews.... so its no indication of a problem.

The peddle feel will not change as the pp is already broken in. As far as breakin I would still go easy on it for 500 miles so the new disc can bed in. It should smooth out around the 200-300 mile mark

Question for you,

why did you install it if you were not happy? Did you inspect it at all? I would have seen it was not resurfaced and contacted seller/ SB BEFORE install.

Just seems very strange

I received the packaged, and I did not check the parts, assuming they were all like new. It was only after my transmission was dropped that we opened the package and saw the condition of the parts.

I trusted the claims of "95% life remaining", "excellent condition," and "flywheel bolts included." I didn't even have the correct size tool to take it apart anyways.

At that point, my installer asked, "it's up to you, we can put the old one back in or install the 'new' one." It was going to be $400 either way. I was kind of stuck with installing the new one.

Either way, I probably would not have known what was normal wear and tear until the installer pointed it out. His reaction was vivid. He was really shocked something like that would come out from the South Bend warehouse.


I just contacted Jon, and he said if I wanted it resurfaced and if I wanted flywheel bolts, I or Greg would have had to pay more, and that it was in "good condition" with "no defects". That places a lot of pressure on Greg, since Greg assumed that both of these would be done with the service (which is a normal assumption when you spend $230 to have a kit "refreshed"), and I essentially got a product that wasn't as described.

Greg - you asked Jon to resurface it, right? He didn't do that? That's a problem in my eyes.

I spoke with Jon regarding this clutch as I was interested in purchasing the kit from Greg. Jon told me the same thing--"here is at least 90% life left in the flywheel... I could resurface it if you want me to, that would be up to Greg to tell me what he wants done here."

He seemed apprehensive to doing it. I really think he believes it should operate fine. The fact that he didn't do what was asked bothers me Lack of flywheel bolts also.

It seems as though some people have chatter at idle and some folks don't. I don't know what is going on with that. I've heard the FX350 kits have inconsistencies like this.

Find out what Jon has to say about the chatter at idle. To me, only the last video really portrays an out of the norm sound from these new silent series setups. The other ones seemed normal. For example, the one in your garage should show more sound due to the walls.

Good luck with everything. I will be checking for updates.

lilfleck said:

Greg - you asked Jon to resurface it, right? He didn't do that? That's a problem in my eyes.

I spoke with Jon regarding this clutch as I was interested in purchasing the kit from Greg. Jon told me the same thing--"here is at least 90% life left in the flywheel... I could resurface it if you want me to, that would be up to Greg to tell me what he wants done here."

He seemed apprehensive to doing it. I really think he believes it should operate fine. The fact that he didn't do what was asked bothers me Lack of flywheel bolts also.

It seems as though some people have chatter at idle and some folks don't. I don't know what is going on with that. I've heard the FX350 kits have inconsistencies like this.

Find out what Jon has to say about the chatter at idle. To me, only the last video really portrays an out of the norm sound from these new silent series setups. The other ones seemed normal. For example, the one in your garage should show more sound due to the walls.

Good luck with everything. I will be checking for updates.

Click to expand...

Lilfleck -

Yes, I asked him to refresh/rebuilt the kit and guess what he did? He cleaned it up without resurfacing the flywheel and pressure plate.

Pierre found a evidence which states "South Bend says that they will not refresh or rebuild a clutch kit with an excessively worn flywheel or pressure plate, as shown below"

I firmly believes that Jon has been ignorant to me most of the times. Back then, I emailed Jon about the shifter getting stuck in reverse or first or second gear, his response was, your transmission may be having problems. I disagrees with him and my transmission is in great condition. He doesn't care about his job or providing an excellent customer service to his customers. He's blowing something out of his ass to his customers like he all cares.

So $200+ to clean the parts?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

And is the revised unit 3 or 4 springs? Seems like both of you got a raw deal.

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jerome99 said:

And is the revised unit 3 or 4 springs? Seems like both of you got a raw deal.

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Click to expand...

Pierre got 4 springs upon my request to Jon which he didn't even resurface it. Only cleaned it and didn't include the flywheel bolts.