The ULTIMATE Workout Thread

[D Griff]

Who paid for the study will get you results from both sides that will still give you no clear answer.

Huh?

 

[KurtP1]

Interesting info on the dairy stuff, I'm intrigued now, I'll probably have to do some more research. That Harvard article was pretty inconclusive, but on the other hand I view Harvard/academic sources as more legit than magazines.

There is a ton of info out there on hormone impacts.

The first step would be to read what farmers are saying about what is happening to our food supplies, identify what is actually going into foods, and then look at what medicine is saying about the impact of those items.

You will be appalled at what is happening to our food. From there looking at the impact of things like hormones and chemicals is easy.

start here:

http://www.youtube.com/movie?v=jRp71BwRW8c&feature=mv_sr

then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv3vEXy_EwU

http://www.amazon.com/Folks-This-Ai...d=1345652765&sr=8-1&keywords=this+aint+normal

http://www.westonaprice.org/

http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dil...5652844&sr=1-1&keywords=the+omnivores+dilemma

 

[Chris@Revo USA]

Huh?

When the dairy industry pays for the study milk is good.

When the orange juice industry pays for the study milk is horrible.

When the industry supplying the hormones to dairy farms pays for the study regular milk is good.

When some organic group pays for the study the hormones in regular milk are bad.

When the group that makes the pasteurization equipment pays for the study fresh milk is bad but if its been processed its fine.

 

[KurtP1]

When the dairy industry pays for the study milk is good.

When the orange juice industry pays for the study milk is horrible.

When the industry supplying the hormones to dairy farms pays for the study regular milk is good.

When some organic group pays for the study the hormones in regular milk are bad.

When the group that makes the pasteurization equipment pays for the study fresh milk is bad but if its been processed its fine.

well gee, there's probably just no way to figure out what's real and what's not, is there?

If nothing else, look at aggregates....look macro then micro. We, as a nation have more of a problem with diabetes, obesity, heart disease and a host of other medical issues than other 'developed' nations. Why is that? Other nations drink. Other nations smoke. The amount of processing, adding of hormones, etc we do to our food in addition to quantities and types of food eaten is what really stands out as the difference.

Europeans on average, aren't healthier because they are smarter (perse, anyway) or because their healthcare is better (it isnt), its what they eat. They dont eat 7billion servings of bread a day and the stuff they do eat is in moderation, not processed out the wazoo, and loaded with hormones and chemicals.

 

[Gunkata]

 

[Chris@Revo USA]

well gee, there's probably just no way to figure out what's real and what's not, is there.

Unfortunately when it comes to food related stuff it is very difficult. At this point the amount of money on all sides and strong opinions they can buy and sway science.

 

[KurtP1]

Unfortunately when it comes to food related stuff it is very difficult. At this point the amount of money on all sides and strong opinions they can buy and sway science.

except for the fact that people that dont eat that garbage, as a general rule, aren't fat and people who do are substantially worse off from a health standpoint.

You can pretty much be assured that if the government recommends anything to you nutritionally outside of "dont drink diesel fuel" and "dont eat fertilizer and PVC piping" you need to do exactly the opposite of what they are telling you to do.

Hormones, chemicals, fluoride in your water, corn in everything, artificial vitamins and minerals in foods, etc. its all bad for you....and while i realize many of us deal with a paradigm/normalcy bias shift to these ideas, and understandably so, its not hard to grasp.

 

[Chris@Revo USA]

except for the fact that people that dont eat that garbage, as a general rule, aren't fat and people who do are substantially worse off from a health standpoint.

Thats a great opinion but its nothing more then that, please do not state it as fact like you did, there are no facts that outright back up what you claim.

There are fat people that never drink milk and skinny people who chug it down a gallon+ a day.

To be clear I' m not saying you are not entitled to your opinion or that it is even wrong, but it is no way shape or form fact.


Look at eggs, one side tells you its a miracle food and that dietary cholesterol is not a concern. The other side say eggs are terrible should be consumed in extreme moderation and that they are a huge part of the problem with high cholesterol. Which is it? There are "facts" that support both sides.

 

[D Griff]

When the dairy industry pays for the study milk is good.

When the orange juice industry pays for the study milk is horrible.

When the industry supplying the hormones to dairy farms pays for the study regular milk is good.

When some organic group pays for the study the hormones in regular milk are bad.

When the group that makes the pasteurization equipment pays for the study fresh milk is bad but if its been processed its fine.

Ah, I see what you're saying and I'm going to have to agree with you. That's why I said University studies are generally the best IMO, they are less likely to be very biased. It is pretty difficult to tell what's good and bad to eat. I know fast food and ice cream and such are bad for me because I feel gross after eating things like that. But milk/dairy/processed meats, etc. leave me feeling fine. Also, I'm not fat and I eat these things. I know many others in the same boat.

I guess I'll just kind of stick with what I know with eating to some degree. I'm sure hormones aren't great for people, but on the other hand, people live way longer now than they did before all of this stuff. Unfortunately, I can't really afford to find all this hormone free food, I go to Aldi or Walmart and buy whatever seems healthy, cheap, and tasty.

Kurt, thank you for the links, the stuff is interesting and like I said, I agree that these additives are probably unhealthy, but it seems like a lot of the info is inconclusive and this way of life is just cost and time prohibitive.

 

[KurtP1]

There are people who will smoke all their lives and not get cancer and people who will booze all their lives and not get cirrhosis of the liver. There are always exceptions. My point was the FACT that we, as a nation have substantially more health problems than, for example Europe does. The single biggest difference are these lifestyle choices and how and what we intake as food.

Im not saying drinking a glass of milk means ZOMG fat and death. I am saying its not good for you for a number of reasons. If you, or anyone else doesn't agree and don't think there is any point is researching it and making a decision, then don't. :shrug:

 

[Chris@Revo USA]

If you, or anyone else doesn't agree and don't think there is any point is researching it and making a decision, then don't. :shrug:

I never once said there is no point in researching, I just said that you WILL find research that supports both sides. There is currently no definitive answer to the dairy debate.

There is no point in researching if you don't understand this, so why is it wrong for me to point out that you might find mixed answers based on who paid for it and who benefits from the results?

 

[KurtP1]

Ah, I see what you're saying and I'm going to have to agree with you. That's why I said University studies are generally the best IMO, they are less likely to be very biased. It is pretty difficult to tell what's good and bad to eat. I know fast food and ice cream and such are bad for me because I feel gross after eating things like that. But milk/dairy/processed meats, etc. leave me feeling fine. Also, I'm not fat and I eat these things. I know many others in the same boat.

I guess I'll just kind of stick with what I know with eating to some degree. I'm sure hormones aren't great for people, but on the other hand, people live way longer now than they did before all of this stuff. Unfortunately, I can't really afford to find all this hormone free food, I go to Aldi or Walmart and buy whatever seems healthy, cheap, and tasty.

Kurt, thank you for the links, the stuff is interesting and like I said, I agree that these additives are probably unhealthy, but it seems like a lot of the info is inconclusive and this way of life is just cost and time prohibitive.

And ultimately the decisions I make arent going to be the same as yours, and that's totally fine. People live longer now because we have become really really good at treating disease, but quality of life is what could be argued We have really really really degraded the quality of our food supply in this country.

In addition to my beliefs on the evidence presented about the food, my body is susceptible to hormone inputs. I've identified that, and act accordingly. Others might not care, so this stuff isn't nearly as big a deal to them as it is to me.

 

[Chris@Revo USA]

Ah, I see what you're saying and I'm going to have to agree with you. That's why I said University studies are generally the best IMO, they are less likely to be very biased.

University research relies on private funding, it can be just as biased, but yes probably less like to be very biased then the milk is the devil research company putting out a study on milk.

 

[KurtP1]

I never once said there is no point in researching, I just said that you WILL find research that supports both sides. There is currently no definitive answer to the dairy debate.

There is no point in researching if you don't understand this, so why is it wrong for me to point out that you might find mixed answers based on who paid for it and who benefits from the results?

Its not. I fully understand that there are evidences that can/could be presented by both sides. I firmly believe the science is substantially stronger and more supported on the side I'm on.

I certainly didn't change the way I do pretty much my entire life because I got bored, but if you don't feel convinced or compelled by the evidence in that direction, then so be it. It really doesn't matter to me either way. I'm not butt hurt one bit if you choose to drink milk or whatever else.

There IS a right answer out there, and I believe I've found it and act accordingly, you do the same. No biggie. It just means that I have to work a lot harder and/or break the law in order to eat what I want to eat.

 

[D Griff]

It's funny, I went down to the warehouse my company has a bit after lunch and everyone was talking about this stuff, I guess it's really a hot topic right now. Hopefully more folks will continue to research it in the science world.